“I think therefore I am” is the famous quote by Renee Descartes that we momentarily touched on in class earlier today. I want to bring this quote up again because the reasoning behind it is interesting and leaves me deep in thought every time I attempt to ponder the concept. Before coming to Rhodes, I spent a semester at Appalachian State University where I took one philosophy class in which we studied Renee Descartes. We discussed his famous quote and took several of his theories into consideration. One question that we focused on, and I want to present to you all is, does matter exist independently of the mind?
I know this question may seem vague, but take into consideration Descartes claim, “I think therefore I am.” If we are thinking and rationalizing beings that can self doubt, and thus realize we are doubting which means we exist, is it possibly for matter to exist beyond that? If other matters and forms cannot doubt and rationalize does that mean that they don’t exist? Perhaps I’m coming at this approach in a wrong manner, but either way I want to gather your thoughts. I’m aware that we have not studied Descartes in Ethics but from what little we’ve discussed, I still want to hear opinions.
After that first question, I have one more question to follow that one up with. I found this question in an article. If we do assume that matter exists independently, which came first, mind or matter? This question stumps me. I find myself leaning towards the fact that mind came first and yet I doubt that claim because how could a mind exist without the matter first existing? Descartes proved that yes the mind exists, but the mind being separate of the body. The body according to Descartes is matter. However, does the mind exist without matter?
Now I feel like I’m starting to get into sci-fi world that Dr. J mentioned, are we all just brains in a jar, are we all asleep, or are we actually in the Matrix?? Sci-fi aside, what do you guys think of Descartes view on existence?
From the questions you posed, it seems to me that matter can exist without the mind, and this is from a very scientific point of view. everything around us IS matter. the chair you are sitting on right now, the screen you are reading from, the clothes you currently have on, they are all matter, and yet they they do not have a mind (and I am guessing here that by mind, we mean the electric impulses and myriads of activities in which our brains engage.)
ReplyDeleteWith this then I can also attempt to answer your second question by saying that matter can exist independently of the mind, but in my opinion, I do not see the mind existing independently of the matter. Thus, I would side with the idea that matter came first.
But I think I should also mention that, when speaking of the human being who is composed of both the mind and the body, I do not see them existing independently of each other. Though I do consider them separate entities, in the human body the two must exist simultaneously of each other. for without one or the other the human being is no longer.
But hold on a second, if we are considering mind as the various activities and functions of the brain. We could also even argue that in the human body, matter comes first, because the brain is made out of matter. couldn't we? without matter, the mind in question will not exist.
ReplyDeleteLiz,
ReplyDeleteThank you for bringing up this topic again. Of course, Descartes would answer your first question with something like: “We cannot give evidence for the existence of matter", because that was the reason for the thought experiment. The only thing that has to exist is doubt. If you doubt its existence, you prove its existence. So, I guess, we don't have to care if it matter exists, because even if we live in our own Matrix world, we cannot get out of it (unlike Plato's cave allegory), so there is no sense of thinking about it. This could be considered as a stoic viewpoint or something like an agnostic one.
Talking about your second question, I personally believe that there needs to be matter first, before mind can exist. Why? Because, what else is mind than a chain of chemical reactions in our brain? ;)